[arcade]

Astazi din cate am inteles au fost ceva probleme pe undernet, dupa cum urmeaza:

Start of #Randall-News buffer: Sun Nov 13 18:02:25 2005
[17:24:56] * Now talking in #Randall-News
[17:26:41] * Randall sets mode: +o Nick1
[17:26:42] * Joins: Nick2 (Nick2@Nick2.users.undernet.org)
[17:26:48] * Joins: Nick3 (~Nick3@Nick3.users.undernet.org)
[17:27:22] <Nick2> Randall: what was the main reason for doing this ? Wink
[17:27:32] * Joins: Nick4 (~Nick4@Nick4.users.undernet.org)
[17:27:46] <Randall> CService registering "town name" channels in Romania.
[17:27:47] * Joins: Nick5 (service@nick5.users.undernet.org)
[17:27:49] <Nick4> sup
[17:27:55] * Nick1 sets mode: -o Nick1
[17:27:55] <Randall> That start a lot of conflicts
[17:27:57] <Nick5> Smile
[17:28:21] <Nick1> that's somehow $true, a lot of conflicts all over the years.
[17:28:32] <Nick1> but still, isn't a more personal reason ?
[17:28:34] <Nick3> Randall, what sort of conflicts?
[17:28:35] <Nick2> Randall: I see, so you didn't plan to touch anything else than cservice related and
those channels ? For example, other help channels /
[17:28:44] <Randall> No
[17:28:57] <Randall> What I did today was
[17:28:58] * Joins: Cleaner (cleaner@do-it-for-frodo.at.sublimesp.net)
[17:29:06] <Randall> Just adding a lot of usernames to *
[17:29:15] <Randall> They did whatever they wished then...
[17:29:23] * Parts: Cleaner (cleaner@do-it-for-frodo.at.sublimesp.net)
[17:29:32] <Randall> And also retrieved a lot of information from CService's web interface.
[17:29:37] <Randall> I did NOT purge any channels...
[17:29:42] * Joins: Nick6 (asad@mspetru.users.undernet.org)
[17:29:47] <Nick4> the usernames that you added, were they the usernames of your friends? did they
know about what you were planning on doing?
[17:29:48] <Randall> Or changed emails for usernames with 500 accesses.
[17:29:57] <Nick3> Ah. So, you did not cause X to split?
[17:29:58] <Randall> Some of them, yes.
[17:30:05] <Randall> Others weren't.
[17:30:14] <Randall> I added some users... they added other users and so on...
[17:30:17] <Nick1> Randall Do you know that "Vlad" spreads your real life location/real name/address
details to everyone wishing this info?
[17:30:22] <Nick1> vlad aka Cyk
[17:30:36] <Randall> I know.
[17:30:45] <Randall> All CService has my personal information.
[17:30:46] <Nick1> this happent several months ago
[17:30:47] <Randall> Including opers, etc.
[17:30:55] <Nick1> this didn't made you simple stop ?
[17:31:07] <Randall> Nope.
[17:31:07] <Nick1> today or tomorrow I might see you on tv too, what for?
[17:31:19] <Randall> See me on TV?
[17:31:21] <Randall> Why?
[17:31:25] <Nick1> well if someone makes a complaint
[17:31:26] <Randall> I didn't do anything illegal. Smile
[17:31:26] <Nick1> or smth
[17:31:33] <Nick1> are you sure?
[17:31:40] <Randall> Yep.
[17:31:53] <Nick1> Randall, I am NOT the one to judge you.
[17:31:54] <Randall> I did NOT hack anything to get here.
[17:31:56] <Nick4> talk us through how you obtained access to * ?
[17:31:57] <Randall> What I did was...
[17:32:04] <Randall> Taking advantage of ppl weakness...
[17:32:09] <Randall> Convince them I'm someone else...
[17:32:14] <Nick3> Randall, um, excuse me, but isn't "hacking" into someone else's computer
illegal?
[17:32:24] <Randall> Nick3, I did NOT hack anyone.
[17:32:34] <Nick1> then how did you do that?
[17:32:43] <Randall> I convinced some admin on some ISP that I was the person owning the email
[17:32:43] <Nick2> He started telling that. Smile
[17:32:46] <Randall> He believed it
[17:32:53] <Nick6> Smile
[17:32:54] <Randall> And told me the password for the email
[17:32:57] <Nick3> You just exploited someone to get their password?
[17:33:05] <Randall> Someone had an account here with that email
[17:33:07] <Randall> So... that's it
[17:33:17] <Randall> All I did was TALK, Nick3.
[17:33:22] <Nick4> social engineering
[17:33:23] <Randall> Believe it or not, it's all I did to get it.
[17:33:35] <Randall> That's why I don't mind if they have my info.
[17:33:38] <Nick3> Yes, Nick4.
[17:33:39] <Nick4> Randall, have you read kevin mitnicks; the art of deception?
[17:33:40] <Randall> And they have it for more than 2 years.
[17:33:46] <Nick3> Exactly.
[17:33:46] <Randall> No, I haven't.
[17:33:55] <Nick3> Randall, I believe you.
[17:34:17] <Randall> A mind can be very weak... Smile
[17:34:18] <Nick3> He used "social engineering."
[17:34:27] <Nick4> Randall, you should check it out, mitnick used exactly the same methods to gain
access to his systems
[17:34:34] <Nick3> Which is what you are describing.
[17:34:37] <Randall> And it will only pass any encryption method... any security stuff...
[17:34:43] <Nick3> True.
[17:35:06] <Randall> If I can go to jail for that, then they should go right ahead.
[17:35:09] <Randall> They have all information about me.
[17:35:19] <Randall> Including the informations for my parents.
[17:35:30] <Randall> But if they can't, then they should think about it...
[17:35:33] <Nick4> Randall, your away message is asking for a CS official to contact you. Why?
[17:35:36] <Randall> It all started because of a town channel.
[17:35:43] <Randall> And I will NOT stop until they fix that mistake.
[17:36:00] <Nick4> ahhh
[17:36:02] <Nick1> the name of that town channel is our natal city ?
[17:36:12] <Nick3> Randall, I don't think getting that information is illegal. I think using it
may be.
[17:36:13] -Nick4- (private) native ?
[17:37:09] <Nick2> Well, I don't see anything illegal so far. Smile
[17:38:03] <Nick4> depending on local laws, you might be facing charges of fraud, and obtaining
access to systems illegally
[17:38:18] <Nick4> but it's hard to enforce.
[17:38:26] <Nick2> Another question, this is just an IRC, so why making so much dust about it, Randall
?
[17:38:30] <Nick4> since you havent caused any monetary damage
[17:38:34] <Randall> Nick2 Smile
[17:38:37] <Randall> Yes, it is just IRC...
[17:38:41] <Randall> But let me tell you something...
[17:38:59] <Nick4> there's no way to assign a $ value to how much damage is done... and if it's going
to be a civil matter, someone has to hire lawyers...
[17:38:59] <Randall> Does CService care about that fact that I almost got in a hospital because I
sweared on #piatraneamt?
[17:39:11] <Randall> The manager there gained some.... so called "power"
[17:39:15] <Randall> Because of his access
[17:39:28] <Randall> Since a lot of internet cafes in Romania use IRC... they will always need to be
able to join the "town name" channel
[17:39:33] <Randall> In other words...
[17:39:50] <Randall> The manager of a "town name" channel controls a large part of some internet
cafe's profit
[17:40:05] <Randall> Because if he bans an internet cafe, it won't get that many customers, would it?
[17:40:15] <Randall> Because they won't be able to join the town channel.
[17:40:27] <Randall> That's HOW the manager of a town name channel can use his access and get "power"
in that town...
[17:40:38] <Nick1> Randall: Did Cyk abused his IRC access powers that the gained?
[17:40:46] <Randall> Yes
[17:40:50] <Nick2> Can you explain the "I almost got in a hospital" part ?
[17:40:51] <Nick1> how?
[17:41:16] <Randall> Cyk may not abuse his access HERE but he did in real life... the problem is that
CService doesn't care about what happens in RL
[17:41:24] <Randall> Because of a damn access they gave to some don't use bad words here
[17:41:28] <Randall> I want them to CARE.
[17:41:32] <Randall> The hospital part...
[17:41:46] <Randall> Cyk came that day to my internet cafe with 4 more guys
[17:41:52] <Randall> And beat me for swearing on his channel
[17:41:59] <Randall> Cyk, as the channels manager
[17:42:02] <Randall> I went to the police
[17:42:08] <Randall> But I couldn't do anything.
[17:42:16] <Randall> Oh well... a few cops were also added to #piatraneamt Smile
[17:42:17] <Randall> By Cyk
[17:42:40] <Nick4> Generally, whenever there's a dispute between users on irc, they usually just ddos
each other. Why is this different?
[17:42:41] <Nick2> Is it really like that, isn't there someone who is NOT using IRC ?
[17:42:45] <Nick6> This is stupid.
[17:42:55] <Nick6> Things like that shouldn't happen.
[17:43:25] <Randall> Nick4
[17:43:28] <Randall> Why should I DDoS Cyk?
[17:43:34] <Randall> He still has X... lol
[17:43:35] <Nick1> Randall: Did he banned the Internet caffe where you used to work at making money
loss to it?
[17:43:36] <Nick3> Well, it is amazing that what happens on IRC can have such an influence on real
life issues.
[17:43:41] <Randall> He barely connects here...
[17:43:48] <Randall> He has other 400+ ops that do the dirty work for him
[17:43:55] <Randall> Yep
[17:44:00] <Randall> That's right, Nick1
[17:44:07] <Nick1> Randall: As notice, I am channel op there too.
[17:44:09] <Nick2> So, all you want to have is the channel ?
[17:44:10] <Randall> I had to look for proxies or create bouncers in the cafe
[17:44:11] <Nick4> Randall, another option would be to target users of the channel, so they fear to
go there
[17:44:14] <Randall> So ppl were able to join the channel
[17:44:18] <Nick1> but I didn't saw any abusive ban on internet caffes.
[17:44:23] <Randall> Nick2, I don't want to "have" the channel
[17:44:33] <Nick1> in fact they has a rules: no ban on internet caffes for more than one hour per
computer
[17:44:37] <Randall> I just want it purged or given away to someone else that won't do all the crap
that Cyk did.
[17:44:44] <Randall> Someone who wouldn't abuse it IRL.
[17:44:53] <Randall> Nick1
[17:44:57] <Randall> Cyk makes the rules... Wink
[17:45:02] <Randall> And also they won't apply to him
[17:45:08] <Nick6> Randall: aren't you still afraid of Cyk now?
[17:45:14] <Randall> No, Nick6.
[17:45:29] <Randall> In a few days anyway, I'll move to a different town in Romania
[17:45:34] <Randall> Got a better job there...
[17:45:45] <Nick1> ohh, a IRC issue makes you change your life?
[17:45:46] <Nick4> have you told anybody else your story?
[17:45:46] <Randall> Besides, he can't do anything to me right now...
[17:45:56] <Randall> I was easy to find working in an internet cafe
[17:45:58] <Randall> In a public place
[17:45:59] <Randall> Not anymore
[17:46:06] <Randall> Yes, Nick4
[17:46:10] <Randall> I told many admins this
[17:46:15] <Randall> 2 years ago even
[17:46:25] <Randall> Before I started to abuse anything
[17:46:30] <Nick4> i'd like to write an article about this particular incident, and put it up on
slashdot
[17:46:38] <Randall> They just said it's not CS's business
[17:47:25] <Nick4> i think it's fascinating how being the manager of a single channel has so much
power over actual businesses
[17:47:36] * Joins: Nick10 (~Nick10@Nick10.users.undernet.org)
[17:47:41] <Randall> I don't know who are you guys but I still talk to anyone who wants to know WHY I
am doing this because I still hope that one day, it will be solved.
[17:47:52] * Joins: Quince (NotMe@Q2oo3.users.undernet.org)
[17:47:54] <Nick10> muhaha:)
[17:47:55] <Nick3> Over actual lives.
[17:47:59] <Nick1> Nick10 ?
[17:48:03] <Nick1> what's so funny ?
[17:48:09] <Nick10> everything:)
[17:48:12] <Nick4> Randall, what solutions do you think would be viable?
[17:48:22] <Quince> latest undernet news
[17:48:30] * Quince listens quietly.
[17:48:37] <Randall> The local/imediate solution would be to purge or give #piatraneamt to someone
else.
[17:48:53] <Nick1> Randall: Question is who ?
[17:48:55] <Nick4> medium/long term?
[17:48:55] <Nick6> Randall: do you really think CService would do that?
[17:48:56] <Nick1> a vote?
[17:48:56] <Randall> The permanent solution will be to purge and never allow channel registrations for
channels named after towns.
[17:48:58] <Nick1> another dispute?
[17:49:15] <Randall> I don't know, Nick6.
[17:49:29] * Parts: Nick10 (~Nick10@Nick10.users.undernet.org)
[17:49:31] <Randall> The truth is I just got tired of their promisses and all the other crap they told
me.
[17:49:58] <Randall> If I was such a big lamer as they consider me... I could have easily changed
Cyk's email today
[17:50:01] <Randall> Or purge #piatraneamt
[17:50:06] <Randall> But I want them to do it
[17:50:13] <Randall> Because I want them to understand first
[17:50:14] <Nick1> Randall do you think that such an mess on Undernet will make them change their
politics?
[17:50:21] * Joins: Nick10 (~Nick10@Nick10.users.undernet.org)
[17:50:34] <Randall> Nick1, you want to know why I added so many accesses?
[17:50:53] <Nick6> Randall: honestly, I don't think CService will ever do it. Anyway, they deny X
was attacked.
[17:51:12] <Randall> TO PROVE THEM how MUCH romanians want a specific town channel... that's why so
many takeovers occured today...
[17:51:18] <Randall> If there will be no town name channels...
[17:51:35] <Randall> It will never get to this
[17:52:00] <Randall> A lot of takeovers occured on large town channels because some asshole wanted
that channel
[17:52:03] <Nick2> If there will be no town channel names, then there will be other names. So, they
will fight for those names. Well, what's the point ?
[17:52:07] <Randall> Today, I just gave them a "change" to do it
[17:52:12] <Randall> And that just proves my oppinion again
[17:52:15] <Nick10> chance*
[17:52:31] <Randall> Right Nick10 Smile
[17:52:34] <Nick1> Nick2 other names exists allready
[17:52:48] <Nick6> Randall: what if they refuse? What would you do then?
[17:52:55] <Nick10> Randall it will never happen, that channel will never be purged, X and all will be
up
[17:53:08] <Nick2> So, the problem isn't the *name*, the problem is the *manager*.
[17:53:09] <Randall> I hope so, Nick10.
[17:53:13] <Nick1> but for them being manager on a channel with same name of his own city is "a big
stuff"
[17:53:18] <Randall> Otherwise, it could also get boring for me. Smile
[17:53:18] <Nick1> as all his friends enters irc
[17:53:36] <Nick1> Randall don't you think that a channel still needs a manager?
[17:53:40] <Nick1> or someone to drive it?
[17:53:41] <Nick10> Anyways it was fun ha?Smile
[17:53:49] <Nick4> Randall, if you're moving to a different town, what difference does it make if
#piatraneamt remains registered to the same guy?
[17:53:49] * Nick10 having fun
[17:54:02] <Randall> I never forget, Nick4.
[17:54:03] <Nick4> after all, you're leaving Smile
[17:54:04] <Randall> NEVER.
[17:54:18] <Randall> There are like 2 or even 3 years since I started the abuse on #CService...
[17:54:41] <Randall> I wanted the same thing right from the start.
[17:55:02] <Nick10> You and afew others
[17:55:12] <Randall> Until I get a damn bullet in my head or get paralyzed in a hospital bed, I won't
stop.
[17:55:27] <Randall> I'm sorry if I dissapointed anyone here...
[17:55:29] <Nick1> Randall: but still, this is just IRC, why do you care so much ?
[17:55:44] <Randall> But it's just too much for me.
[17:55:46] <Nick2> Next time, set me maxlogins 3. Razz
[17:55:47] <Nick1> making a mess everywhere just because a guy who's by mistake a manager is a jerk
[17:55:57] <Nick6> lol
[17:56:13] <Randall> Nick1, you don't seem to understand that I didn't do any "mess" here.
[17:56:20] <Randall> I just gave some accesses out...
[17:56:29] <Randall> Everyone did what they wanted next...
[17:56:30] <Nick5> right.
[17:56:33] <Randall> And that's not my problem.
[17:56:34] <Nick3> He just made it possible for others to do it.
[17:56:57] <Nick1> Randall: what if they don't have any backup
[17:56:57] <Randall> Seems like this network turned in a more "get power" game...
[17:56:58] <Randall> Than funny, good time, chat...
[17:56:59] <Nick10> haha
[17:56:59] <Randall> Everyone here wants something...
[17:57:03] <Nick1> do you have any for them?
[17:57:04] <Randall> I felt like the "wishmaster" today...
[17:57:11] <Nick1> to fix the mistake just in case things are fixed?
[17:57:12] <Randall> Ppl msging me asking for channels and all that stuff
[17:57:23] <Nick6> Randall: what was the username of the CService admin you got the password for, if
you can tell us.
[17:57:35] <Randall> Yes, Nick1... I know a few accesses I gave out...
[17:57:44] <Randall> No, Nick6, I can't tell you that.
[17:57:47] <Randall> Sorry...
[17:57:48] <Nick6> Ok.
[17:57:55] <Nick1> Randall can your mistake be fixed by you if they don't have a recent backup ?
[17:58:02] <Nick1> that's an important question for me.
[17:58:07] <Nick4> Can you confirm the level of the username was 750?
[17:58:10] <Nick2> Randall: but that info exists anyway.
[17:58:18] <Nick2> Randall
[17:58:25] <Nick2> X is logging everything, so .. Smile
[17:58:27] <Nick1> let's ask step by step.
[17:58:28] <Randall> Yes, Nick1 but it will probably take up to 2-3 days.
[17:58:46] <Nick1> Randall do you have a backup of db in order to fix it?
[17:58:47] * Joins: Nick9 (Hokie@hc6524eb2.dhcp.vt.edu)
[17:58:49] <Randall> I'd have to contact everyone I gave access to and then have them contact everyone
they gave access to.
[17:59:01] * Joins: Nick7 (~Nick7@nick7.users.undernet.org)
[17:59:10] <Randall> Nope.
[17:59:14] <Randall> Only my logs, Nick1. Smile
[17:59:25] <Nick1> it means a lot of manual work
[17:59:26] <Nick2> Nick1: someone else has backups, official undernet person.
[17:59:28] <Nick2> That is not the problem.
[17:59:33] <Nick4> it's clear that no direct access to systems were obtained
[17:59:36] <Nick2> It's a matter of time.
[17:59:48] <Nick6> Well... is it hard to replace a db?
[17:59:57] <Nick6> And is it up to date?
[18:00:05] <Nick1> Nick6 if it's a recent one all is fine
[18:00:23] <Nick4> Nick6, how long is a piece of string Smile
[18:00:25] * Joins: Nick8 (~Hrz@81.181.11.125)
[18:00:34] <Nick5> Randall: You still have * access on a username?
[18:00:50] <Nick4> if i were isomer/kev/etc, i'd say 'screw you all, this can wait until i'm ready.'
[18:02:09] <Nick1> for me the chat is over.
End of #Randall-News buffer Sun Nov 13 18:02:25 2005

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